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hed_2012
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PostSubject: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:36 am

Hey I was just wondering if anyone understands the whole metaphor or idea behind the words 'babylon fall'...The reason I ask is I have heard about 80 bands (no shit) use these two words together in lyrics and at the end of the day it means nothing to me.

I tried to research it but couldn't find anything that stuck well with what these guys are saying. Is it something to do with breaking down the walls of an established system perhaps? Thanks in advance for any feedback. It's really been bugging me.
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TYLER.2012
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:56 am

Babylon was an ancient city that formed the origin of the modern state and the system of brutality that pervades the world today

it is very common in reggae music because it is rastafarian and jah is heavily influenced by this obviously.
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:22 am

I always thought babylon reffered to the establishment or the police. I mean I never really looked into it and I just assumed thats what it meant.

Benjii from skindred uses it in his lyrics on many tracks on "babylon" their first album, and in the track itself is talking about police corruption and abuse, theres a bit in it about "suss laws" over here in the 70's and 80's a lot of black men were subject to this where the police had the right to search you just on suspicion.

But hell I could be completely wrong, Tyler sounds like he knows about it.

PEace, lozz.
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:27 pm

what ever it is. it sucks! right?
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:14 pm

TYLER.2012 wrote:
Babylon was an ancient city that formed the origin of the modern state and the system of brutality that pervades the world today

it is very common in reggae music because it is rastafarian and jah is heavily influenced by this obviously.

yeah, I also had a similar idea but it's good to see it makes sense Wink
I think this metaphor refers to the state, the government and that they wanna see it fall becuase it's corrupt and evil, etc.
Actually that's pretty useful for me as I'm gonna use some (hed) songs in my MA project and Babyln Fall is one of them, so I'd be good to explain the title.
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:54 pm

andy_factor wrote:
what ever it is. it sucks! right?

yes it does
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:59 pm

Babylon was also a ancient empire in what is now Iraq...
Modern day Iraqi's are descendants of the Babylonians.
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:23 pm

PhiliBIRD wrote:
Babylon was also a ancient empire in what is now Iraq...
Modern day Iraqi's are descendants of the Babylonians.
that's interesting, I didn't know that.
But I think that's not the meaning of the song, Hed is against the war in Iraq but not the country itself, right? So why would they want it to fall...?
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:55 pm

No no no (hed) don't want to see Iraq fall, lets get that straight now. Im sure Jah doesn't agree with genocide.....
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:37 pm

So we're coming back to my & Tyler's interpretation about the fall of the government, which sounds probable in relation to the lyrics Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:58 am

Babylon was one of the first big time established goverements it is just a couincidence that it is modern day iraq
jah doesnt even thing iraq has done anything to the u.s or anyother country remeber? thinkshe we are the terrorist over there
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:37 pm

I believe they are just referring to how it was a very thriving empire that was always back and forth with being in revolt. And eventually they got overthrown by the Persians. And that's basically how America is. Ever since the 60's we've been trying to have a revolution. And people are always predicting that America will get overthrown by other countries. It's basically the same as what you guys are saying too. But that's what I always assumed "Babylon Fall" meant.
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:00 pm

I been wondering about this since you brought it up, cause I too have noticed I have a bunch of songs referencing to something about Babylon.

From wiki:

Quote :
Zion vs. Babylon

Rastas assert that Zion (i.e., Africa, especially Ethiopia) is a land that Jah promised to them. To achieve this, they reject modern western society, calling it "Babylon", which they see as entirely corrupt.[6][8][12] "Babylon" is considered to have been in rebellion against "Earth's Rightful Ruler" (Jah) ever since the days of the Biblical king Nimrod.
Quote :
Babylon is an important Rastafari term, referring to human government and institutions that are seen as in rebellion against the rule of JAH (God), beginning with the Tower of Babel. It is further used by some to mean specifically the 'polytricksters' who have been oppressing the black race for centuries through economic and physical slavery. In a more general sense babylon refers to any system that oppresses or discriminates against the black race. Rastafari is defiance of Babylon, sometimes also called Rome — in part because of the 1935 Italian invasion of Ethiopia, then ruled by Rastafari's 'Living God,' Haile Selassie I, and partly because as the head of the Roman Catholic church the Pope is considered an opponent of Selassie I and Rastafari. Babylon the Great and Whore of Babylon are apocalyptic terms from the book of Revelation that may have been used to describe the pagan Roman Empire, which often persecuted Christianity. Babylon is also sometimes used by some Rastas with the more specific meaning of "police", insofar as they are seen as executive agents of Babylon's will. Most specifically however, "Babylon" is the corruption and perversion of the Word of God. The amalgamation of Pagan holidays and dates is an example of "Mystery Babylon". Many dates, like Christmas, were merely pagan holidays like Solstice. The perversion of truths such as this is "Babylon". Call it police or black oppression, but those are not the root of what "Babylon" is. Anything that is a lie regarding the truth of God, is the actual root of what is considered "Babylon" by Rastafarians. As mentioned above, police are "agents" of the schism" that is "Mystery Babylon".
Quote :
Some criminals in Europe, perhaps influenced by popular culture depictions of or actual encounters with Afro-Caribbean 'rudeboy' gangs, use the term babylon to refer to the police. Most often this is in the context of a shouted warning, indicating the arrival of officers at the scene of a crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement#Zion_vs._Babylon

And if you can find them on the internet theirs Bill Coopers Mystery Babylon radio series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper

I think heds babylon song is more about the Rastafarian Babylon, cause of the lyrics, and less the conspiracy.(second link)

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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:37 pm

Yes, I guess that's it.

I also think it is a metaphor of the modern US governement as Babylon might be associated with abusive rulers, lack of citizen priviliges etc. And with Hammurabi.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/47575/Babylon
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PostSubject: Re: Babylon Fall   Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:48 am

in simple words: babylon=the system
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